SD abortion zealots try to abort any future ban here

Good to hear from you again Steve. Is it just me or does Nicolay's picture bear a striking resemblance to Benjamin Franklin?

"18 states are now putting forth legislation like our Informed Consent legistation. That's a win." You tried to ban abortion 3 times in 3 years, they all failed. IM 11 was predicted to win by 28 points, it failed by 10 points. All three anti-choice bills (CA, CO & SD) voted on this year failed. Obama is the new President, Daschle the new SH, Johnson and Herseth-Sandlin were re-elected handily. Yep, sounds like a win to me. You should be proud.

NOTE FROM SH: Same IP as "Grace" I'm guessing this is the stalker again.

PC, that's so mature of you to comment on someone's looks. If you can't beat em', make fun of em'. So Christian of you.

grace- why didnt you defend pastor steve when the dakota women joked about him needing to spend less time blogging and more spend time on the treadmill

instead of spearheading the campaign to kill south dakota children jan should take a cue from Looby and work on herself

http://contest.bodybuilding.com/gallery/contest/3092/mode/will/page/42

http://contest.bodybuilding.com/gallery/contest/3092/mode/will/page/28 

btw i saw Jan in the news making herself feel good by doing something charitable something about feeding poor people meat from hunters. even though it makes her feel better all the charity in the world can't wipe the blood off her hands

Yes, it is very interesting how pro-aborts want the government out of all of it but then they beg the government for hundreds of millions to keep Planned Parenthood going. Gotta love the killers of the world! God tells us not to judge, but He reminds us HE will judge. I'd be more affraid of His judgement then any other. It's going to be an interesting time. I'm just waiting for the time God slaps all of the pro-aborts in the face. They'll wake up some day and beg for the Lord's forgiveness. The Lord will then open His arms and show them all the babies they have killed and then He'll ask, "How do I forgive this?" I hope they all have an amazing answer for Him!

Has anyone else noticed that there are MANY, MANY pro-life people who were at one time self-professed pro-aborts but had their hearts opened to the gift of life? Conversely, if abortion is such a great thing, how come we never hear from anyone who WAS pro-life, but now devotes their life to killing children? I wish someone so "enlightened" like Grace would explain this trend to us.

"NOTE FROM SH: Same IP as "Grace" I'm guessing this is the stalker again."
SH, you are a fantastic dectective! Are you sure you haven't worked in law enforcement? If I'm a stalker, than I must be in good company with you Steve. BTW, I don't have a blog where I post people's wedding announcements, pictures, IP addresses, places of employment, personal phone numbers, Facebook pages, etc., just because I disagree with them.

Anon 12:22. Why would I defend Steve? And DW never said anything about Hickey's weight (problem), it was a commenter.

Stephanie, are you saying that 206,535 SD voters will "wake up some day and beg for the Lord's forgiveness"?
That's how many voters voted No on IM 11.

Anon 12:57, "if abortion is such a great thing, how come we never hear from anyone who WAS pro-life, but now devotes their life to killing children".
Are you suggesting that no one has ever been pro-life than switched to pro-choice? I've met MANY. You "never hear" from them because they are not hanging out at the VYFL office, which is for sale if any of you are interested in some prime real estate. Anon, just because you've never heard of anyone switching from PL to PC, doesn't mean they don't exist.

Anon 12:57 - Just for the record - I was vehemently against abortions for years, now I think each person must have the choice to decide for herself. The reason I changed my mind? I became pregnant; I was also unmarried. I had a beautiful baby boy who is now finishing up his master’s degree in counseling – and I wouldn’t have changed a thing. I’m certainly glad I chose to have my son but let’s not be flip… it was no walk in the park. Raising children is not an easy task for two parents – it’s twice as daunting for one. I sacrificed much for my son and he is by far my greatest accomplishment – however, I would never again ask – no demand – that someone else choose the road I did based on my beliefs of right and wrong. I still believe that abortion is a horrible outcome. I would council someone against it. But ultimately, it NEEDS to be their decision. Because it’s a biggie.

Grace,

Yes, that is exactly what I am saying!

Stephanie, glad to see you've seen the light and are pro-choice now! Welcome to the club.

I like how you assume that everybody who is pro-choice wants to "abort anything that may lead to life." That's definitely not true. Pro-choice people are parents to children as well. They allow people to make their own personal decisions.

Pro-choice people do not encourage everyone to go out and have an abortion. You shouldn't exaggerate like that to make a point. It only sounds absurd. If you honestly believe that I want every potential mother to have an abortion… you're nuts.

I'm pro-choice and I can say giving a child up for adoption would be more favorable to me than an abortion. But you can't make decisions for everyone. Different voices, different choices. Let the family decide.

All this repetitive and useless argument brings me back to the same old questions. When does life begin? And to what extent should we protect life? (Homosapian life) An Individual of the human species, what is that life worth and what is the personal and economic cost of taking a human life?

Grace,

Seriously what is going through your head? Actually, I probably do not want to know. I never said I was pro-choice, and I never will. I am pro-life and always will be. No need to welcome me to your side of pro-abort because I will never sign that contract of evil and harm.

Angela,

I personally will put pro-choice with pro-abort. I too allow people to make their own choice. They have the choice to have sex or not. Along with that they have the choice to have protected sex or not. Therefore, if they choose to have unprotected sex then they knew they were exposing themselves to a potential pregnancy. It was their CHOICE. Therefore, I obviously let people choose their own destiny. I do not agree with letting people choose the destiny of others which is what they do when the choose abortion or support abortion. You are supporting this when you are pro-abort whether or not you personally abort. If you support it then you support it! You can be pro-life and still support someone making their own destiny. This support can be the support of the individual deciding whether or not to have sex let alone unprotected sex! If people would think and not make irrational decisions we wouldn't have to have this big debate about pro-abort/pro-life anyways. It's an easy solution don't have sex unless you are ready for the potential pregnancy. I like how you say, “If you honestly believe that I want every potential mother to have an abortion… you're nuts,” because that brings me to a very good study. I am posting a link to the abstract which you can pay to read the entire published medical journal if you want (fortunately I get access to all the published medical articles for free) http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6T8T-4V1D7W5-1&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=b90aba0bb4d7535f34c634d0fb90b31b. I don’t think I’m the one suffering from any mental illness. I can fully understand this study because I think if I killed someone I would suffer mentally for the rest of my life. I also think if I supported someone, anyone in anyway in killing I would suffer for the rest of my life. Think of it this way; when you die and Jesus places a baby in your arms and asks you, “Angela, what would you do to protect this child?” Could you look Him in the eye and ask Him, “Well, was this baby of a mother who didn’t want it or was it a welcomed baby?” After asking Him that and getting a reply of, “This child was from a mother who did not want them,” would you be able to stand in front of Christ and say, “Well I would support the killing of this child then?”

Steph,
Well over 50% of this nation's voters identify themselves as pro-choice. I guess hell will be full.
"They have the choice to have sex or not."
What about rape/ incest victims?
Plus, birth control is not 100% effective. Abstinence is, but I don't think that approach is working very well. There were still 707 abortions performed in SD in 2007 (I'm guessing on the year).
The VY side is still scratching their heads on why they lost so badly. Well, Steph, it's because of people like you. If an undecided voter hears/reads a pro-lifer threatening them with a sentence of going to hell, and in some way contributing to the death of a child by voting against an abortion ban, than they will vote no. They just can't identify with someone who threatens others. So keep up the great work. And if you guys come back again, it will still be easy to beat you.

Grace,
Wow, you must have some degree and what a level of intelligence. If I could just know all the things you do, like, "If an undecided voter hears/reads a pro-lifer threatening them with a sentence of going to hell, and in some way contributing to the death of a child by voting against an abortion ban, than they will vote no. They just can't identify with someone who threatens others." Man, I should go back to the Ivy League school I graduated from and demand a refund! I will not coddle someone who kills or condone what they do. I would pray with them for forgiveness but not support what they have done. It is not my threat that they will go to hell if they do not repent, its God’s promise. Maybe you should demand a refund on your education because from what I’ve learned hell is not fun, hopefully I will never have to find out but that is for God to decide. Your comment, “What about rape/ incest victims,” did you not read IM11? It clearly stated the exceptions for that. People know that birth control is not 100% effective, so once again they would be making the choice to potentially conceive.

Comments are very appreciated but I don't want to focus on hell here. Let's keep on the topic of abortion.

My guess is that there are a variety of views of hell that are held by those who read this blog. Of course I have my own, which, since this has come up I’ll clarify as they relate to abortion….

God doesn’t send people to hell. Hell is self-imposed, and he grieves as people choose to reject his plan and offer of salvation and live apart from him. Hell is a place of eternal separation from God – people who don’t want God in their life aren’t forced to spend eternity with him. The plan of salvation (from hell) that God offers is NOT Jesus plus a right view on abortion equals heaven. The plan is Jesus, alone.

Saying that, Jesus spoke harsh words to those who would hinder or harm children. It follows that those who follow him will not support things that harm children. There were disciples of Jesus who hindered children and Jesus rebuked them. Today, there are heaven-bound people who, in ignorance, don’t recognize the personhood of the unborn. They can expect a divine correction on this issue, not necessarily hell. An acknowledgement of the personhood of the unborn is not a salvific requirement.

“Grace” is right in that some people are turned off by some pro-lifers because we tie the blessing of God to how we vote on things like abortion. Grace is wrong in thinking pro-life leaders in SD are scratching their heads as to why we lost. We know. And we know it had nothing to do with some being turned off by the religious pro-life message. VoteYes did not run a religious campaign which many know is a minor point of controversy in the pro-life community in our state. I and others, not Vote Yes, brought the religious message to the table but, with the exception of this blog and a few ads in newspapers from pastors, that message only was directed to the choir.

I have written elsewhere at this blog that we don’t even need to bring religion into the discussion to come to the conclusion that abortion is wrong. For example, Christian-hater Christopher Hitchens is pro-life and an atheist. In other words, he’s right on the abortion issue, and dead wrong with regard to salvation. So, to sum it up, one can be pro-life and go to hell.

Enough on hell.

We should talk about morality though and my friend Bob Ellis had a splendid post yesterday on the same subject of this post - his take is that Ms. Jan is asking our state leaders to not be moral leaders but people who follow the will of the majority and not do the right thing but rather do whatever is popular.  Sibby also has a good post on the matter saying, "South Dakota abortion supporters are using the vote of the majority to infringe upon the right to life of the pre-born."

Steph,
Yes, get a refund.

Steph,
"It clearly stated the exceptions for that [rape/incest]."
A woman could only have an abortion if she was willing to turn over evidence, comply with a police investigation. Have you ever been raped? Why do you think rape is the number one underreported crime in this country?

"People know that birth control is not 100% effective, so once again they would be making the choice to potentially conceive."
So nobody should have sex unless they want to conceive?

Steve, you state you know why you lost? Care to share?

"So, to sum it up, one can be pro-life and go to hell."
Are you stating that if you don't believe in God, you are going to hell?

I'm about to close off the comments on this post.

Grace keeps wanting to talk about rape exceptions and hell and other stuff we've gone over ad nauseam - mostly things that are irrelevant to what we are talking about here. You are stumbling in the dark Grace.

Despite the fact that it's is far far off topic - I will shed some light on your last question about belief in God. Even belief in God is not the path to salvation. The Bible says "even the demons believe and shudder." Do you expect me to give a politically correct answer and abandon Scripture? Many of the new religious left do so - they accept the compassionate Jesus and Jesus the teacher but fully reject Jesus the prophet who said the only way to the Father is through him. It's remarkable to me that people love to point out how Jesus accepted people but they fully ignore the fact that he also spoke frequently about others being cast into utter darkness where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth. Either he is fully a liar and a lunatic or he's telling the truth.

Think it through Grace - do you really think God would let his Son die on the cross if there were multiple other legitimate paths to heaven? A lot of people who believe in God reject the path to salvation paid for with the sacrifice of His Son. If you don't like to hear Jesus is the only way, fine. But he said it, not me. Take your complaint up with him.

You didn't answer the question.
Why did you lose?

You mistake me for an idiot and a fool with your incessant baiting. But you are the idiot if you think at this point in the game that I'll be open with some anonymous nag whose heart is fixed on the notion that abortion is good. I'll leave you and your friends to your guessing in the dark.

Here are some questions for you? The press conference was about not banning abortion but rather how committed those who profit from it are to the cause of preventing the need for it. LOL. Don't misunderstand me, prevention is a key part of the battle. But only one lost in a delusional nirvana would believe we can rid the world of unplanned pregancies. Therefore, since the goal you all say you are shooting for is not possible, is there an abortion limiting/prohibiting legislation of any sort that you would favor?

Roe v. Wade and it's counterpart Doe v. Bolton allow for abortion through full-term for basically any reason. In your view, at what point in a pregnancy does a child assume human rights? 22 weeks? 32? Birth? When they are welcomed into a family? If you answer at some point before birth as most would, would you favor legislation prohibiting abortion prior to whatever that point is determined to be?

In the Informed Consent case, since PP was unable to offer ANY evidence contrary to the scientific statement that conception produces a separate living, distinct, unique human being - don't our legislators have a moral obligation to protect human life whether public opinion supports that or not?

Bob Ellis/Sibby are right, Jan N. and Casey M. are asking our legislators to be those who follow the crowd not moral leaders with principles.

I've answered enough of your questions and so it's your turn.

Grace,

Wow, you are just filled with anger. It isn’t going to help or make you feel any better by lashing out on a pro-life blog. There are others way. I am just shocked with how truly angry you are. Are you happy? Do you want happiness? Do you always want to be encompassed with hate? Us Gaters are willing to pray with you. It will make you feel better then lashing out on a pro-life blog.

Yes, I do know that IM 11 required that the rape be reported but that was not a law that IM 11 came up with. That is the law! It is a misdemeanor for any person with any knowledge about a rape to not report it. It is the law that you are required to live by.

I really hope you think long and hard about what is making you so angry and unhappy. It isn’t the Voices-Carry-Blog. Let us know if you want prayer.

Steph,
I will pray for you.
Hickey, you are still dodging the question.

Dodging the question? Hello!? How many different ways do I have to say it with regard to your question? Are you slow? You waste my time which I suppose is partially your intention. Initially I glossed over your question which I thought would send you the message that you are the last person I'd do anything more than superficial dialog with about a question like that. But incessant as you are, you asked again and I referred directly to the question. You still missed it. So I put some significant bite in the first paragraph of my last comment figuring you'd surely understand that - wrong I was. Reread that and give it a rest. "Grace" I have some questions on the table for you - If you don't want to answer those, then go away.