February 4, 2009
Six under seven plus eight - the Octuplet's aren't the problem
The math of a single mom having fourteen children without even one job or source of support doesn't add up. This IS a hard one. But, let's be honest…. does the math of a single mom in any crisis pregnancy add up? No. So what gives? The church ought to be giving. Society can sort out the root causes that created these "problems" and "unwanted" and "unwelcome" children later. There is plenty of "blame" to go around. But we need to think really hard before we punish children for the circumstances that brought them into this world.
The Catholic Church opposes IVF and for good reason - I take a little different view but the point is we have medical technology way out ahead of any ethical grounding. If we are to believe the reports, for sure the clinic and doctor are centrally involved and share substantial "blame." And, we can beat the mother over the head for getting herself into this situation, for having misguided hopes of profiting from it (she hired a publicist!), for not being married, for not having a job. It sounds like her family has turned on her - gramdma's out there telling AP reporters her daughter is obsessed with having kids. When she went to the hospital to have the babies grandma said, "I'll be gone when you get home." Maybe this gal does have some psychological disorder. Margaret Sanger would have her sterilized.
But, I'll give this gal this much, it's widely reported that she had all her embryo's implanted because she could not bear the thought of even one being discarded. She refused "reduction" which means kill some of them. That's nuts to many who don't see the humanity of the unborn, but here we have a gal who sees what God sees. (Before you criticize her, read this.) Maybe he chose her to start a national discussion on the humanity of the unborn. Maybe he was giving yet another opportunity to see if the Church would step up and help.
I've yet to hear a peep out of the churches near this lady or anywhere for that matter. It's not the governments job to provide for women going alone or children without parents to care for them, it's the church's job. If the church was doing it's job, there would be no need for the welfare system. If fact, those familiar with the Bible will attest that God built provision for the poor into the economy of a community and government wasn't even in the equation.
I'm reading that no sponsors are stepping up to the plate to help this lady - no diaper companies, no adequate home for her, no food, no free van. "Producers" are under a Biblical mandate to leave the corners of their fields unharvested so the poor can glean provision. You get the point. Am I the only pastor out there offering the strength of my resources and influence to this single mom and her children? I'll keep you posted on how you can help her too.
I hope society never loses sight of the fact that kids are a joy and a gift from God to society. Maybe one of these kids will grow up and find the cure for what will kill you.
PS - The Bill O'Reilly meltdown on this gal last night was absolutely ridiculous - charging her with crimes the mom has yet to commit. I'll try to find a youtube clip later - but for now I'm curious what you thought of it if you saw it. The guy freaked out. Sad.
Comments on Six under seven plus eight - the Octuplet's aren't the problem »
Stephanie @ 9:56 am
Steve,
I honestly thought Bill did a nice job lastnight. The reason why is because I do not think he was freaking out that now we have eight kids to support, but the fact that this mother put her life at risk but also the lives of eight babies. That is fine that she didn't want any embryo to die, but she did put all eight babies at risk when she decided to carry all of them at once. If she did want all eight of them she should have done no more then two at a time. I think that was why Bill was so upset was because the great risk this mother was willing to take and continues to take now by exposing these children. I thought he did a good job of getting his feelings across about the risk this mother took and is continuing to take. I do agree with his belief that if this mother does not find some kind of income support those babies are going to be at even more risks. Bill was highlighting this risk because at this point in time the only source of income that has been discussed is the mother selling her story and using the babies as ways to get money. I did not find any anger in Bill that this world in now blessed with eight more children. In fact I found all of his anger to be addressed at the fact that this mother was willing to risk the lives of nine people, eight of them being babies, and now continues to leave the upbringing and care in question. When she has no job she has no way to support these children, and she should not of had eight children at once just to get income through endorsements and publicity.
Bret @ 12:10 pm
I agree with you Steve, but at what point does it become enabling someone to continue to make bad choices.
Steve @ 1:33 pm
Still can't find the clip from last night. Here's a related one from a few nights ago. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJh201nZcps
friend @ 2:19 pm
I agree with Stephanie. O'Reilly is irate with the whole situation, but never once did he ever say or insinuate that these children should not have been carried to term. He has a problem with the fact that a doctor would perform IVF on this woman, not with the fact that once the babies were implanted, the mother didn't reduce.
Steve @ 3:27 pm
O'Reilly was not freaking out on the children, true. He was freaking out on the mother - yelling at the lady who merely suggested this gal just may be a wonderful mother. He accused the mom of neglect, being a bad mom, etc. I thought he was way out of line - when women in desperate straights come to me for help, I help them. I don't hammer them for contributing to their unfortunate circumstances. We all get to judge her today, including me, I think some pathology WAS fueling her "obsession with having children."
I think O'Reilly was already in a nasty mood because of the New York Times and the rest of the show was tainted by his mood.
Stephanie @ 6:44 pm
Steve,
Bill had a point though to freak out about the statement that this mother may just be a wonderful mother, because if she is a wonderful mother then she would have never put nine lives at risk, let alone risking her own life and the mother of the other six children. That is why Bill is struggling with someone saying that this lady may be a wonderful mother. When he accused her of neglect I think he had a good reason. The mother knew the risks she was imposing on these lives and they had no say in. She could have killed all eight babies by making this decision to carry eight babies, and for what reason? Was it a selfish act? Was it because she is suffering from mental health? Is it because she wants to make money off of it? We probably will never know the truth, but I also find it neglect of these eight children because of the great risk she put each of their lives in. Now, I am not saying that she should have let the embryos go and just not had the babies or anything like that. All I am saying is that if this mother was truly looking out for what was best for her children she would have done it two at a time or donated the embryos to others. I do find it neglect that a mother is willing to risk all eight baby's lives for this moment of press and money. Now, I do think though that she could become a very good mother after she realizes the mistake she made by potentially killing nine lives, and leaving six children without a mother, but she needs to realize it and with all the attention she is getting I doubt she will right away. Not only do we need to ask if she neglected these eight newborns by putting them all at risk, and they are still at risks because some are not even two pounds, but did she neglect the other six children? Were those six children getting the care they needed from their mother while she was carrying eight babies? I'm not sure how a mother just carrying one child could raise six other children on her own. We know that the only way she made it was by help from her family, which is fine, but don't these six children need their mother too? Wouldn't that be considered neglect? Isn't it neglect to not have a job to provide for your children?
Yes, I agree she needs help, and I agree that people should reach out to her, but I honestly do not think she wants the kind of help she truly needs. She wants press and money and what she needs is counseling and job training. She wants to be made a TV star and have her own show on how to raise children so she went to drastic measures to get it. I do not think a diaper company or baby food company should step up to the plate until this woman takes responsibility for her own actions. Yes, maybe send her some diapers and supplies for about a month or two, but then require her to learn and take responsibility for this. I think if companies start helping her out and handing her things that she is going to go and do something else that people are going to question so she gets more attention. I don't think we are dealing with an individual who is the strongest with her mental health. Therefore, if we coddle her and her mistake she is going to continue doing more until she learns and seeks help in the areas that she does not want help with.
Nikole @ 2:36 pm
Stephanie,
I do have to say, that all you (we) know about it is the spin that the press has put on it. How come no one criticized the family from IA or Jon and Kate plus 8? Instead, these families did get free mini-vans and diapers and formula and whatever else they needed. Why would this woman think that her situation would be different.
People do things for all sorts of different reasons. What we do know is that there are 14 children that need to be cared for and a mother that will need help doing so. You're right, her circumstances are not ideal, nor do I think they should be condoned, but does that mean that we as a society should stone her? Bill O'Reilly's head nearly exploded on TV.
If he wants to get mad, get mad about the rip-off stimulus bill or the garbage that Obama is appointing to his cabinet. If he actually wants to do something about the octuplet situation, maybe he should send a percentage of his earnings from "Bold Fresh Piece of Humanity" to her. That would help her and the babies a lot more than it would to scream on TV about her POTENTIAL neglect.
Just a thought.
Stephanie @ 7:22 pm
Jon and Kate plus 8 have 8 children total, and income. They had income before relying on the media for income.
mr. o w kenobe @ 9:22 pm
Taken From FoxNews.com Article: 8 is Definitely Enough
As word of the births spread people began to call with offers of cribs, strollers, baby clothes and other items, said hospital spokeswoman Carmen Gonzalez.
"We're compiling a list of things that people want to donate," she said, adding the mother will review the list and decide what she needs.
…it sounds like people are supporting this mother according to the article above. As far as IVF, it should not be condoned. This woman already has 6 kids, no housing of her own, no husband, no job, no income. Not only should Bill be upset about the mother's/babies situation, he should be irate with the medical staff and the doctors who assisted with this should be questioned. There is a point where we have to ask, what are the boundaries for doctors? The doctors assisted this woman in jumping off the bridge instead of pulling her back and reasoning with her. It comes down to medical experimentation…how far can the body go?